More Than Just: Conversations with Misfits, Entrepreneurs and Change-makers

More Than Just a Mom — with Nazhah Khawaja

• Season 1 • Episode 6

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In today’s episode, I’m joined by the multi-talented, multi-faceted Nazhah Khawaja. Together we talk about writing, parenting, creative community, and the power of telling our stories.

Tune in to hear us discuss: 

  • How Nazhah follows her many passions
  • Why having a daughter made Nazhah reevaluate her identity
  • The power of creative community and storytelling
  • How writing a book helped Nazhah heal & validate her experiences
  • Boundaries with storytelling & social media
  • Being honest with our kids & receiving their advice


⚠️Noise alert! Chicago construction really does what it wants, friends. So you’ll hear some background noise in this episode. Please forgive the interruptions.

 

Links & resources:


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🙌 This podcast is supported by listeners like you! If you enjoyed this episode, we'd appreciate it if you could make a donation of any amount at this link. You rock!

Hey and TJ listener are you a solopreneur who knows doing it all yourself won't get you to that next level, well before we start this epic episode let me tell you about our amazing sponsor my VA rocks my VA rocks is a virtual assistant agency that pairs you with the help you desperately need. They're wildly talented virtual assistants can pretty much do it all. From sales support grant writing speaker Outreach bookkeeping to graphic design copywriting and of course those administrative tasks we all dread, my VA rocks has the perfect support for you and honestly I have had several clients hire va's from my V8 rocks and I have personally not only seeing their business. Exponentially grow faster but I've also been able to see them fully step into their passion and have this renewed sense of excitement and their business, because no longer are they overwhelmed by all the things that they think they need to do they can fully just do what they want to do to create the business that they desire. So you want to see how my VA rocks can support you will head over to their website at my VA dot rocks to book a complimentary consultation call. Also don't forget to follow them on Instagram at my VA rocks all right let's get to it, welcome to More Than Just I'm your host Mel mcsherry on this podcast we share how we are more than just descriptors and titles that identify us and our lives our. And our. In the safe common room space you'll hear stories of success and Lessons Learned From Myself and other Misfits entrepreneurs and change makers. My intention is to inform connect and expand our knowledge so we can be mentally emotionally and financially. As we create the change we desire my promise is that from each episode you'll take away not only inspiration and a connection to someone you never knew before, but also the encouragement the action steps and the support so you can create what you want. Music. Hello everyone welcome to yet another amazing episode of more than just Mel mcsherry here and as always so excited to have this amazing human in our space today. Nazhah khawaja yeah yes you got it yes I love it I met nazhah we were on a panel together, you know in the before times I can't even remember a year so we'll just say in the before times and we have friends. And it was an amazing panel highlighting mompreneurs and the funny thing is to me is that, of course I listened to you as you were speaking but there were so many others you know there was just so much conversation going on that I knew I was like we have a lot in common, and I couldn't put my finger on it until you reached out to me we're talking from an Autism mom's angle and I was like oh that's great we have to so we have been connected for a while now supporting each other she has just so many gifts it's insane and I'm so excited too, just care more about you and all of the amazing facets that mix up nazhah so with that said first and foremost not that thank you so much for spending time with us today I'm so grateful that you're here. Thank you Mel I just want to say that I love the concept of this podcast I think just. Women out their mothers out there however you identify I think we can appreciate you creating the space because sometimes we limit ourselves like I feel like we're limited to but also limit ourselves to, some of these like titles or things like that and there's so much else going on in the background that doesn't get highlighted or that we think does not need to be highlighted and so I just appreciate you and your initiative, first and foremost different thinking of me thank you for having me thank you for all the kind words you have this amazing personality you bring people up you highlight, all of these different things about about individuals and it's a gift it and it takes effort and I can see that and I just appreciate you wanting to do that for other people it's amazing. Thank you I foresee that thank you thank you thank you just like I did not pay her to say that so we the Royal we would love to known as a what is your main title or descriptor and how are you more than just that. I would you know it's funny because before I know you said you know just let's have an organic conversation and I was thinking about like do I introduce myself as like my work title do I enter But like I just want to say I'm a mom I am more than just a mom but that is my main identifier I take a lot of pride in the fact that I, my mom and I hope you know I could add the were successful to that and I don't know if my kids would disagree or not but, that Italian ships moment-to-moment anyways so we won't put much stock in that I like you guys are alive and fed so you know right a job I am doing my job I'm getting my mommy paycheck I'll have to have to steal that, yeah, but I am a mom I also would identify as a writer and I fail again that's something that I wouldn't be able to say if you ask me this question a few years ago because I kind of thought that I needed to. Have something to brag about before I could I could say those words about myself and I me again. Pleasing myself into this like just limiting myself and limiting the thoughts that I have about myself which is unhealthy of course and I had to work through that work out of that, um so I would say a mom and a writer and then there's the work title so I am an Outreach specialist with early Autism Services as you know, we are behavioral intervention therapy, provider for children on the autism spectrum I've also recently launched a podcast for the company titled life and he's and I had Mel hazard first guest I'm a little ticked us off with that and such a great folic acid such a great resource thank you and that was the that was the that was the whole point about it it's so much fun to know that that's my project for the company it's like, me pushing for you know I think this is going to be a great tool I think this is going to be great for marketing not only for marketing but I don't remember feeling the company I'm in marketing for families to know there's a place they can go to for you know just, conversations because sometimes you have the tablet conversations in here from other parents and here from providers and here's from doctors, so that's what I mean when I say marketing yeah and I do some nonprofit work on on the side and so when I do have some time there are a few nonprofit organizations that I work with closely I'm a grant writer for one of them. Viator House of hospitality they are a nonprofit that works towards assisting Asylum Seekers. Transition into a safe place where they can receive help in trying to get on their own two feet and so. So when they turn 18 unfortunately these Asylum Seekers are placed into. Detention centers which are pretty much kind of jail cells I mean if you think about it it's unfortunate because they leave a terrible situation, and they're here and they're taking care of but as soon as you turn 18, it's like well you know yeah and I've cut them loose and but they're in these detention centers and so Vidor House of hospitality is a great place that you know provides Housing Shelter food, purses Mental Health Resources to these Asylum Seekers who are here from all over the world. And so it's been an honor just being part of that organization assisting volunteering and also now a grant writing for them. That's so fancy I told y'all she is fucking awesome so many amazing good works and, you have your fingers in so many important cookie jars right like it's easy for us to overextend ourselves because we think we have to or you know insert kind of excuse here. These are all things that are really close to your heart and what would you say you know with all of these different things that you do spend time and energy and commit to in such a way what's kind of the common theme ideas like is there a common theme and what would that be that just drives you and motivates you to be a part of all these things. You know I think I want to be. A good human being a manatorian and an activist for for human rights and so maybe that is the common theme, I do strongly believe in the Arts and expression and that time the expression P Stein's into to that as well I do think that voices need to be heard and thoughts need to be expressed, and respected and identify what the brown community and I think a lot of times in the brown Community women are, kind of just over simplified if that is something that makes sense it just a concept of like, you know this is this is who she is this is what she does and then one-dimensional yes exactly, and so maybe something about breaking barriers within that community and wanting to show the community that I identify with and also myself that like no I'm more than just, a mom or a more than just an employee of like of the world right like there's more to me than just those things but I do truly believe in the fact that we are gifted with certain things but those gifts are supposed to be shared with the world, and so it is our responsibility to find out what it is that we know we can do well and how we're able to share that with others. Mmm that's so powerful and so true and I think sometimes we tend to. Almost diminish that because we're like oh well yeah I have this gift but what really can I do like how much impacts can I really make. And it really is those little things that make such a big difference and finding those Outlets that you can. Confidently the right and utilize those gifts to high screen doesn't matter if it matches or if that's what you're supposed to do but if it's something that you're truly strong in that can provide some sort of value to others then. That's the way to go and correct me if I'm wrong but I mean I can definitely see that even with your book of. You know utilizing your strengths as a writer and you know. Yeah you realize you're saying there's a writer and a beautiful way that you do use words I would love to hear and I would love you to share more about your book because it's absolutely beautiful, thank you Mel I appreciate that so much of the book is a piece of my soul it's very important for a number of different reasons mainly, kind of going along with what I mentioned about being identifying with the brown community and, knowing just firsthand experiences and also just hearing from family members the misogyny there patriarchy the double standards that exist within our society within our community, even in this day and age it's so unnecessary and just feels like nonsense all the time and so my book The Other Side of Life is a story that centers around a main character furnished a. The setting is in Pakistan in Lahore that's a city that I was born and raised in Chicago but that's a city that my family's from. Um I lived out there for a few years after my first marriage my ex-husband's from by son so I lived out there while we were waiting on the immigration process. And it was exciting at first because I'm like oh this is this is my land these are my people my culture you know okay, I'll get to experience that and then unfortunately as things unfolded as these Twisted narratives and. Just experiencing the way Society treats women and the lack of respect you know I came out there with a bachelor's in finance and marketing. And they told me I should just stick to teaching because that's what women do, as wow yeah as I was interviewing for positions in companies or I think in a business school. They were just like why do you want to do this like don't you know you should just be a teacher it'll be easier for you out. And I'm like barely know he's been a teacher before because that's a whole another conversation you know what I did no I did so I did I applied for this math position at a school and. I was like but see this is what I mean like me just limiting myself because thinking okay Society dictates so I have to comply. Or else what is my place in society where would I stand where would I be who you know who would who would take me or I don't know if I but like just like you know just some experiments and so, I taught for a few months and they have this the way that they you know you're this other week or the ten the two weeks when you get your paycheck you sign off on your paycheck. And it's just a sheet that shows you everybody's pain and so tell me why all the male teachers were paid double the female side. And it's so clear it's right there in front of you and it just you know at first I gave them the benefit of the doubt I was like maybe they have more experience I don't have teaching experience you know I still got this job I should be grateful. But seeing you know meeting with the teachers not to say you know I just I felt like I was a equally, you know just matching their energy at work and so I'm like I you know had a conversation with the principal and I was like I need a raise, and then he was like well we have this counselor position available if you can do both. We can talk about a raise and so why did Mel I did both share the firework and maybe baby we can talk about more money and I think that's what the hell was I thinking right like what but it's again it's just that societal conditioning to like yeah you have to prove you have to go through jump through these, you know hoops and this Ops you have to go through this obstacle course and then we'll see if we think you're fit for right anyway, so many things just came up over the course of those few years that I lived on Pakistan and a lot of devastating truths in just my family's history. And just totally broke me to pieces I had no idea you know maybe I was naive. Just ignorant I don't know but at this sort of story just started building in my in my mind and then I just needed to get it out on paper so that is the other side of life obviously is if it's fiction based on the non-fictional themes that I encountered, so every anything that you find profound and moving is based on a true incident so just wanting to put that out there you may find it on Amazon and also Kindle, my book is now in Salt Lake County Libraries so this creates congratulations that's a big dude, thank you thank you thank you so much I am really proud of that and I'm wanting to kind of. See if I could get it in you know other other counties as well but it's where you can find. That's so so let's let's let's turn back because that I mean yes everybody needs to get the book all the links will be in the show notes. But I think this is such a beautiful juicy conversation and very timely which is I almost want to say this fish will always be timely I don't mean that but, Where We Are, you know government blyat the time of this recording of May 20-22 and if you don't see them as I'm wearing my favorite T-shirt with you know you said. Looking back you know you're like I was so naive I didn't know any better what was kind of I'm a I'm assuming and definitely correct me if I'm wrong that was kind of the start of the Awakening quote unquote but I would love to hear more about. How did you start to maneuver out of that like what what what was your journey after that of like this is fucked up. And this is how you know this was. How this is part of your culture right this was just something that just seemed status quo so what what happens after you I'm assuming the kind of when he came back to the States and what I would love to hear more about that. So what is about five years later when I had my daughter honestly it was having a baby girl because I had my son's older I had a boy. But just having a girl and like holding her in my hands and thinking about like who am I what am I going to show her. Through actions through the way that I live my life through the interactions I have with other people you know what kind of role model do I want to be for her. What kind of society do I want her to live in I am I being true and honest part of a society that I want for her like am I doing the work. To build that's kind of community Society for her, and and yeah Jules I paused Mel and I was reflecting on so many things having a girl and just knowing that we don't have a lot of power a lot of respect a lot of station in the culture that I come from, just knowing that as I'm holding her was very frightening. But then again I'm like okay I'm frightened but like what am I doing about it and I up the time I was doing absolutely nothing, and I'm not trying to kind of discredit moms out there you know I was a stay-at-home mom I did work part-time I think just for something you know not related to, what I studied or anything but this is just what I'm thinking in my mind like what am I doing. I'm not I'm not doing anything I'm not contributing to society whether it is through volunteer work you know and I was in I was in an unhappy situation I was in an unhappy marriage, and so that you know unfortunately does a lot of damage to like you know your persona who you think you can be I didn't have a lot of, faith in myself I didn't have the courage and I just I was in a better place I you know just to be honest I was like wanting to blame everyone else except me right like not wanting to look in the mirror and say hey well what can you do. To change your situation and so there were a lot of a lot of different things going on at the time and I just I was like there needs to be a major kind of shift in how I want to present myself for who I want to be, what I want to do, the type of role model that I want to be for my daughter especially for my son to but I was definitely something that I really value ate it after having, my baby girl wow yeah I can see that as a very powerful. Shifter and it's so interesting you know the the connection for me with the title mom I wrestled with that. Fair probably the first year of my son's life because. I first had postpartum depression which I didn't know until like 2 years later because you know we don't talk about Bruno and. Another purpose like I had this image in my head of what motherhood was going to be like and it was nothing like that. And that was like come from right where did that image come. Yeah I mean for me it definitely came from you know what I grew up with television let's be honest like I definitely have this Persona of like, I'm 30 you know having my first baby and all my girlfriends are going to Rally around me and it's going to be so great and, they didn't and they fall on event that now but now that we're all in her 40s because they don't want to hang out with. Mom where none of them had kids right so I'm not blaming them but it was that just like total. Upheaval but then when I told somebody I am a mom all of a sudden I have this context are lens on me that. That's not me either so it's a really interesting Journey for me and at that title of of mom and definitely. You know it's Spurs a lot of things right whether it's you know you have a boy or a girl or, every gender in between but it's spark some things I think the reason why I asked you like where did you get that image from because the same for me it's just, you know seeing the dishonesty from previous generations or even some I love social media for some reasons not for all reasons some reasons and one of the reasons being the honesty of, the gruesome truths of parenting and how horriffic. The experiences can be at times that from the imams I met I didn't hear that I looked at them they were so put together and they were just like I had everything, together and they're smiling and they're beautiful and their hair and like clothes and I'm like I have like, breast milk on my t-shirt you know from yesterday that I'm not going to wash because I'm just gonna get more breast milk on this teacher you know what matters here is t-shirt for a few days, okay yeah just you know I'm just I didn't know that you know that's the truth for many other women out there and I just kicked myself in the behind day in day out just like I'm not the mom I want to be comes ahead of those border hip premature, so he needed extra care and attention he was in the NICU for two months and it was it was a whole different so Not only was it like being a new parent but just knowing that this is not the traditional if that can even be a thing way of letting you know milestones and, and things like that having to you know, my sister didn't have to worry about her child my sister had her son a year before I had mine so she you know she was kind of like my Benchmark I guess that I would measure everything against, and so didn't have the issues with feeding she didn't have the issues with it with her son you know being able to hold something the grass rolling around. Pulling to stand and like you know walking and she didn't you know. Yeah I'm just what am I doing wrong now that was the country every single day as I woke up my mom work for the day was just. It's starting with that thought and its soda parenting so not only do you have to do the work right like who's gonna do it but your I would put myself in this position of like just. I'm not I don't even know how to eat starting at like a - something to get to neutral to be able to get through the day. Right I think back and I'm so I feel so sorry for myself and there's this therapeutic process called I think it's called homecoming where you kind of close your eyes and you envision yourself. At a very difficult time in your life and you are therefore for yourself. You know I find myself doing this in two for two different times in my life one is when I was a younger child like between five and nine I would say that age range and another is like. Back to my you know just visiting myself as as that new mom and wanting to just be there like hey you know that's is very healing, anyway that was kind of a tangent but that's why I asked you that question because it's like we said at some point you know me personally I'm going to say we but I'm just saying like we said ourselves, we think we need to adhere to these standards that, but I don't know if it's like societal standards and it was hard it's hard to Journey away from that because it's all you know for such a long time and I did find that journey and breaking away and really just wanting to ask myself like what is important to you. What do you want to do who do you want training these different Outlets especially with the writing journey I know I found out about Muslim writers Collective which is another organization that I am also a part of I'm on the board now, but I started out as just a guest wanting to share a piece and so I wrote up a submission. And I was selected but they ran out of time the day I was supposed to present and I was like oh just forget it. My friends like no did promise you at time God damn it like you tell them you need to spare you have you ladies that friend, everybody's best friend smell because I'm just like no I was already nervous about it I never shared my writing I didn't think it was good enough I also didn't want to, I call myself a writer because I'm just like oh I'm just putting ringing random words together like that doesn't make me a writer.

So my friend was just no damn it you go tell them they gave you a spy and I was like I went up to them and I was like I can summarize like instead of the 2:

55 and they did and it was life-changing. It was life-changing that was the first time I presented a piece I was so encouraged to continue presenting. And I you know submitted some more anyway long story short that you know and now I'm on the board for the that organization a few no few years later. And helping to to again create create a space a safe space for individuals you know that have a voice and, and and don't think they do or don't think it needs to be heard or shared and so it's an honor as an honor really. That's amazing and that it's such a powerful example of how much just sharing your story. Can do not only for yourself but for others even just this conversation of. Mother had sometimes fucking sucks and how you know we don't have it all together so mom's I'm sure they do I. I'm sure they do some we're all together all around probably not but it's that when you really hone in your story and you just. Share it doesn't have to be you know I think sometimes we didn't finish our stories because we like well it's just it's not that big of a deal right it's just this is just what I went through. But somebody on the other side here in that and being able to mirror pieces of a story that is so. Powerful and I think that was one of The Inspirations for me to have this podcast is because. By just having space to share a story or multiple stories that either we don't get to have the space to because it's not quote unquote relevant to what we do or what have even though it's I always find it's fully relevant. It's still powerful and it's connecting to somebody so somebody on the other side of this. Is feeling seen and heard and just knowing that somebody else out there has experienced something to that effect yeah it's a lot of the reviews that I've received on the book from women from the same culture identify with, are just like you know even though those experiences and happen to them they are so grateful for the story there are so grateful for a woman. Representing other women from that Society because yes you you hear from the man or you hear from Generations that I'm sorry, you know their ideologies are very detrimental to women's growth so women from the society with these ideologies you know enabling, these behaviors from four men enabling these behaviors from society allowing them to you know to diminish a disrespect women, in our culture you know I also just just so you hear the you hear the views from the menu here the reefs from these women and so they were just very appreciative a lot of the reviews that I received were just like, thank you so much for for voicing you know these stories from women who can't tell their story because their families won't listen Society won't help. Your friends are going to tell them they need to see in these detrimental room Phipps and in these situations. And so I hear you that the storytelling the narratives the sharing is very very vital to anything any growth or any any change that you want our situation so thank you for appreciating that yeah thank you for having that space. Hey friend like in the episode Pretty epic isn't it. Well guess what this episode and all others have been made possible by financial support and contributions from listeners like you. So if you would like to continuously here how these epic humans are more than just go ahead and head over to our GoFundMe and make a contribution cool. All right let's get back to the magic I would love to know how you know you've hearing how the how your book and how sharing your story. Has you know helped so many others I would love to know how did writing this book help. You like what what is your growth in as you've been becoming more and more confident not only inside of your gifts but sharing them. Oh my gosh that is such an interesting question well it was. Terrifying to think that these stories these words we're going to be red we're going to be public. I felt I had to. I'm not sure why I felt this but I felt like this was needed to stay private and maybe it's that pressure from society. It's still that kind of you know generational trauma maybe even just like. Don't speak out and don't talk about these issues they're very sensitive my sister. After reading something very sensitive you know she's just like how could you put that in there. And and that just goes and that just goes to show I was like hey you're my sister. Like allow me that space and she was so ashamed for me, she was so ashamed for she had to steam about that chapter and I was just like no this is the problem this is the problem the fact that you are coming to me and telling me I should not have that or she was just like. She's like not everybody's like that and like why are you showcasing our culture in this way and I'm like the point is not to, bully the culture, in you know but the point is to highlight where The Bullying happens and that it's not okay and the only way to do that is to talk about it. And the other issue I had which I addressed in my novel was the difference between the culture dictating things and religion and unfortunately you know I do identify as Muslim and unfortunate Islam gets a really bad rap, because of really bad people rapping you know are claiming that they are Muslims and this is not Islam. Islam is a very peaceful religion Islam is a faith that protects women. You know it's not my it's a fate that came at a time in history to give women and children rights women and children do not have rights at that time. Women were you know girl babies were being buried because they only wanted met boy babies. At this time in history and so Islam came and the prophet came peace be upon him with this message of like every single life is important. There's no way you think you can you know there's no way no way no how no God whatever want you to do that but yeah and so. I just hate it I hate it bothered me so much my living out there when people were saying things in the name of religion. Fan it was a print it's unfortunately you know you do you you know when people say I'm people are right like hey well this is what they you know this is what the men beat their wives Muslim men beat their wives and guess what a lot of Muslim men do. But they're not supposed to you know what I mean like it's not it's not yet, so that was a rare goal of the book was just too shy to bring up the fact that you know there is a there you have to pay attention to the distinction between, you know the faults of the culture and the fact that it's not something that the religion commands it's just people being bad people. I love that we're having this conversation because it's this continuous narrative of a lot of things where for some reason one person story reflects an entire Community or an entire culture, or you know entire religion. As like we are still humans and we still have our things it's not this isn't representing everybody this is my story and my experience, and. The way that sometimes we get shamed for that especially as women or it's like no we're not you know we're not trying to. I called me every this this is my story this is what I've experienced and I've even you know even conversations that I've had with my amazing black friends it's like when they get talked over X they're like well now you're going to end up this is my experience like just let me. Talk about my experience and learn listen you know, do what you made from my experience completely agree Mill and I did receive those reviews so you know you have my sister on the one hand just feeling all this shame and then I have friends who are just like thank you for putting that chapter in there and they're like wow. Why should I say you know it's more of a reflection on the triggers it hit in them, then what we put out there and I think that's a reminder to everybody of you know honor your story share your story what it triggers inside inside of others.- positively at however on the Spectrum it is, that's their connection to it and you have no control over it you know your words you know you're a truth you know what your intention is. And you can definitely if they're open to it have a conversation with them and hopefully they will. Connect will be like oh okay sometimes they won't and that is not on you to convince them otherwise that is fat as their Journey. They are thing thank you. Thank you for saying that I did I did feel like I did feel like I needed to either validate at those two you know at those times and I was approached and that way that I either needed to validate or. Or say something but you're absolutely right has nothing to do, my words it's just the way that they're interpreting what it's triggering in them so thank you thank you Mom we do need to share our words more often I know what my book isn't as personal I do share some personal stories in it. I mean I have lots of moments from just like what why would anybody want to read this like why. What way and I talked about you know five divorce and I talk about you know being especially being an Autism mom and first of all I just find it fascinating that I think every. Woman Femme identified person I've had on this podcast has been divorced very interested like underlining theme a full conversation about divorce but. It is it's like you know and I mentioned this on episodes before but. It's beautiful to share your story but I know which way or form feel pressure that you have to share your entire story like. Your story is yours and not everybody deserves it. So even finding like your way of how of how you can have conversations or share your experiences or share so you can at least. Connect to somebody on a level that's you know that's Noah terraforming annotation that you have to be like the Kardashians and like just film everything unless you want to. But I think that's you and I would love to hear your thoughts about what you know sharing your story and your words and social media right what. What are your boundaries with that or what is, do you use social media to share your story like how do you see that working with each other so I never had a an account I think I had a Facebook account when I was living in Pakistan for those few years you know I was back in, nine it was hard to connect and four times is he aware that 2009 doesn't sound that long ago and then you're like oh that was a long time ago a long time ago weird it's so calming my family I mean I had to buy phone cards, I think I was like ten dollars for twenty minutes or so you know we didn't have WhatsApp and Skype and all of those things until yeah I think it's time yeah Skype around that time maybe a little bit later but or 2000 oh my gosh Mel no it was actually 2008. Yeah it's two thousand seven eight and nine. It was hard and I so I had a Facebook account mainly to just connect with my family so we're sharing pictures we were just being able to message things like that I closed the account when I moved back to the States and 2010, and then I didn't have a Facebook Instagram any of that it wasn't until I started writing so I did write a few op-ed pieces for a few online Publications. After I started that journey of expression. And those pieces you know it was funny because that was the question that the Magazine's editors asked like what are your handles do you have a website you know where can people find you if your things and I'm like oh my gosh. You will need to find me and read my things and so you know I did create but Instagram account which I used primarily for just highlighting my articles and like, other things and then I started to put more personal stuff on it and add more personal things like pictures of my children I didn't do that till later and I always struggled with I struggled a little bit with. You know how much is too much or what in my personal life is going to affect the way people see me. As you know if it's going to affect the way people see me as a writer and author. Should I keep those things separate should I not be with my stance on a lot of political issues should I refrain from adding those to my stories is that going to affect my follow chip or following ship. And all of those like questions I partnered with the creative Mastermind of the Demarest which is at that time we was an online publication, started off as a fashion modest fashion publication and then we grew it to like women's issues and political issues and we also held workshops and talks in Chicago and New York my partner Mariana she's in New York, and so oh my gosh I loved that time in my life like. Amazing and I was also women editor for the Magda online publication so I think had a conversation about this and I was like but how much is too much are like is this going to be. You know my stance on like certain political issues like is it going to be not well received and she's like well. You know she helped me she's like what is the name on your account you know and I was like nazhah quadrant she's like that is your account, like you said what you want to say she's like it doesn't matter you'll receive it. It doesn't matter that it me well that's your account you're not on their account and you know just trying to kid add content and it made so much sense and again it was that pressure from like oh well am I going to be like tour you know are people going to judge like the fact that I have lame jokes and like should I just refrain from adding that on there and like should I just keep it professional and only content about my book or whatever the case we just took the pressure off I was like you know sometimes know I wake up and I'm just like hey I want to post about political issues sometimes I wake up and I'm just like I son did this and it pissed me the help no, and then other times I am I'm swearing events that Muslim writers collectives you know that we're hosting I'm sharing events that we hosted for the demure has and it's funny again the same sister you know she's going to be me up after this, but like she's not on social media and so just like why you have to look why are you talking about your kids and I I'm just like because it's my damn account and I'm going to talk about my damn kids if I want to talk about my damn kids you know like the people are getting way too much information about you so I would say I do understand. That and I respect people who keep that, that private you know for me I do like transparency and so you know I have talked about the difficulty of divorce I have talked about the difficulty of parenting I've talked I've talked about celebrating these different things, you know just celebrating the fact that I can be in control of like my time and myself and like what I want to do in my life. And like you say you know like you said sometimes these narratives are falling upon ears that didn't know you know they could have this voice or feel this way or be okay with the situation for the decisions that they make. And that's what it is so I don't put everything out there I am going to get my book on Facebook because I think it'll help. And I don't know if their Facebook account is going to turn personal as well the goal is for it. Fee it's also exhausting to be a socially it's like so exciting is it is 100% And it's funny and it's fighting that you know, healthy relationship with it but I fully agree it and I love the advice that your friend gave you because it's so true of like if you're. Handle is you and honestly even for those who are you know I talk to clients that have products and have a product page and like they still want to get to know you your they want to know the face behind the product and your morals and your values are your products morals and values, and people look like to hear that but I was having a conversation with my brother the other day, about you know so I'm LinkedIn I loved LinkedIn by the way I'm probably one of the few Millennials that like LinkedIn I think is such a great space because I, this is going to sound weird I make a great but I make a great for me right like I make it comfortable and great for me. So he my brother is an actual professional like he's had a desk job forever and he was asking me about you know I've been talking more about my spiritual tools that I utilize on LinkedIn and. In a very older brother loving protective way he was like do you think by talking about these spiritual things that you are limiting yourself. In work because people are not going to see those they know you for this and they want to hire you for this but they'll see that and then they won't want to hire you anymore it's like does that does that do you feel like maybe your knees shaking down too much. And I was like and I said you know first and foremost I said I if anybody wanted to hug didn't want to hire me because of. Something that I said or something that are how I think or act or talk. I don't want to work with them anyway hey so if I'm like perfect in every way except for this and they're just like then great then I don't work with my side and secondly. As I do you want do you know that since I've been talking about my spiritual gifts so on LinkedIn, we just want to platforms that I'm on I typically offer complimentary new moon and full moon card readings, and I said rude you know that on LinkedIn alone I averaged about 20 readings a month like. We did it as like and I think clinical professionals that they're wanting it so I'm like I don't see it as a me she down I'm expanding so they see that I have these other gifts. So that is well as you know again with this theme of more than just even in space is like LinkedIn or networking. Don't narrow yourself down so much things like you have to sink it into 30 seconds like. People want nowadays especially I feel want to know more about each other we're curious about each other and. God I hope least in my and my circles gone are the days of networking to be like so what do you do and you know that's that's where you continue on it's more of like. What inspired you to come here today or you know just something different but I think having that strength to expand on your story and expand on. Thank and highlight the different aspects of your the different facets of you that's that's what social media I feel was really created for and I think that's. We want to get back to that so it's starting to break out of that mold of oh this LinkedIn I should only talk about my resume it's like yes. So I know it looks that I love that like taking these platforms that may have been created for you know one or two main reasons. And Main male focuses always re I said that people want authenticity, and people want to see that like you can be a mom and you can be a kick-ass Mel right to like you. You are a hot mess and even when you're a hot mess your inspirational melt like you are so I love that and I hope I'm doing that I hope I'm doing that with with my account and Facebook wanting it to be only for you know just professional reasons maybe that's again that's just me thinking like oh people don't want to like see, the mass or the creative the obstacles of creative Journey like that's something I want I did want to share on the Facebook account as well just like, you know that writer's block or the self-doubt or the getting those rejections like I've submitted my work and to a number of different places where I receive rejections from and it hurts so I was like you know is my account going to be just. You know business just promoting the book or, but I really feel like I wouldn't do justice to my messaging or again just my don't you know as how identify, I'm like wow I want to be in society if I wasn't being honest in other ways too and like you said people cannot receive that that's on them and they you know that's on them and had it's not my responsibility and also if and that's their right. It's their right to to want to unfollow or not support or want to find someone else's there right are we all have. And I'm not trying to infringe on anyone's rights and what a beautiful example for your kids too but are you just as open with your kids about this journey as you are you know in other outlets of your life, I have conversations with my kids about like I'm not having a good day or I'm really exhausted right now. Or like I have a podcast interview I'm nervous you know and I think it just like. It just shows them that like moms are humans like you know I don't want them to think that we're robot because I don't want them to grow up thinking they have to hide or not talk about or express way they really truly feel, in the way that I grew up and I saw that we couldn't talk about certain things because it wouldn't fit in with like oh what are people going to, think about you like they're going to you know why are you doubting yourself don't let anybody see that you're doubting yourself because then they're going to think that like you're not sure. Don't want to continue that narrative at all for my children I think it's a lie and I think it again you measure yourself or you know, you have these crazy standards that you think you need to, to have you know for yourself in order to be that so you know to think that you are a successful human being and in societies like oh well you know. You can't be down full of yourself you can't be anxious you can't be depressed and so, my kids you know just having those open conversations we're like a mommy sad today like mommy's very nervous I'm like and it's so beautiful Mel. When I receive their advice. And it just like oh maybe I'm doing something a little bit right but like they will you're doing something a hundred percent right I'll just say that right now that's a hundred percent right thank you ma'am it's so sweet and then it just reminds you like. Children are so pure right there just pure beings you know and there and then I like sneaky you know you have some sneaky kids out there what I'm gonna do yeah they're moments that are just pure and they're just trying yeah just finding like they're just trying to feel like they're just they're just getting through that our that day like you know they don't have the weight of like, what are you you're from now what's going to happen in 10 years 401K right they don't have like the weight right and so it's so beautiful to watch them like live. And and and it reminds you that like you know. You can take the weight off to and just live in that hour and then that day and know and they don't know kids are just like yeah things are going to be like I mean keep sorry listen nervous too but like, mostly they're not like wow life is going to be very difficult I don't know if I can say that to save and generally you know I'm not trying to be disrespectful. Or you know insensitive but just like in general just watching kids play and interact and grow up like you want to be friends and then they're like yeah I don't like oh right wow that was so easy it's so my my adult girlfriends there a you know Max's thing is if he doesn't want to do anything he just goes no thank you when he's done with a conversation with one of Michael FaceTime one of them because he has a million aunties, when he's done he just goes okay I love you and then they're like oh we're done okay like the like if we could just take more cues from Children of just like. Straight up boundaries yeah they communicate what they want and I was on the flip into I'm the same with Max I'm very open when I'm having a rough day when you know I'm and I I don't do it away to overwhelm him you know we obviously wouldn't. We talk to our kids it's in a way that, they can piece it together and and be there but he he really loves it when he can like take care of me really just goes okay well like hell did he just likes to know and whether he'll like come snuggle with me or even when I'm just like, Mommy needs her space he's like okay I don't know Flippin he now does the same to me don't look at me like we were on the couch the other day he just looks at me it's like. Mom I need some space right now I respect that request I will go into my bedroom ouch needs to be great and you can sometimes I'm like well then dude you go in your room because this is a flight of steps but. It's how I think of it the way that we now you know this generation how most of us least that I'm that I'm aware of, talk to our children is definitely not the way that my parents taught me was very sugarcoat if we talked about it at all it was very sugar-coated, it was very just like everything's going to be fine very Pollyanna and like you know with Max being autistic I can't do that because he needs facts he should know, nice to know ya and so I appreciate that like you know we had a talk about death the other day and it was a really cool conversation and it's like. I know if my if I mentioned death at 10 years old my parents be like oh you know. Go to heaven and that's it or ya know your dog went to a farm kind of deal again I can't do that like I'd have to show pictures of the farm and like the name of the farm and like I'd have to take a friend though Mel is right, lovely. What I said a really great book that I cut my grandma when my dog passed away and I think it's called like over the rainbow or something it's like crossing the Rainbow Bridge and it's such a beautiful story because it just shows how they do go to like a proverbial, the fireman anyway but you know I love how this is just kind of naturally all time together with you know. First expectations of just as a woman as a mother all of these things of like how we think of what we're supposed to do to be successful or good moms you're good you know good people. With also this lens of you know share learning not only connecting to your story but having the strength to share it and continuing that not only. In the you know proverbial void that is social media but also in how we talk to our children and how we share. Where we're at and there because gone I don't think again our parents grew up least mine growing up you know in America. It was definitely like. 50s right of nobody talked anything like everything's very two and a half kids the dog pants nobody's emotions with my mom not that she, I was a bad mom she just didn't have the tools to be able to help it because they never did we never did right yeah so having this like those. Knowing and then knowing how much I felt I know I can still feel how I felt as a young child we're just like I have. I have all these things what do I do with them I guess so confusing as a tile like I'm not okay is it couldn't say that I'm not okay with this mom like I couldn't use those words. And so for me it is very important when I sit with my kids and I'm like I need to know how you're feeling and your feelings are important, I will try to help as much as I can but you and for them to also be able to put their feelings into words I think because that's the there's a feel like there's a healing process that goes on right there too and I didn't know how to do that I felt a lot of things and I couldn't and it took me years and years and years I'm just like, let's talk about how you're feeling like we may or may not be able to solve or help or find a solution right away let's just talk about the feelings put it out there don't judge the feelings feelings are feelings you know. So just not having that emotional support that I would have liked as a child and again I love my mom she did her best. Very best with the resources that she had but I knew I can still feel that as a like that feeling I got as a child just everything was just like it was just a very like started to close like everything turned to close out like around me dark and just, Spartans were closing or something I don't know. Yeah I think it's definitely honoring you know what our parents gave us to say my parents are amazing they did the best they could with how they grew up on the resources that we had and now it's up to us to now add iron what either we didn't, no he needed or what we needed but couldn't receive because they just weren't capable of it again nobody's fault no blame. But that's it I think this whole thing is just a beauty of. She and just sharing where you're at and sharing your story and being in a space like this is mine This Is My Truth this is my experience. And letting people know. Where you are at even you know Partners lies you know you have your husband I have a partner like that communication as well I know it's totally different and this relationship that it was my first you know marriage and that's probably a whole another podcast but. It all comes down to just that letting go of that. Expectation that we put on ourselves for being a mom you know what that looks like what we should or shouldn't do to really just. Honoring your best and honoring your journey and the story is never. Done until you're done right so there's always room to. Edit and rewrite and you chapter and all of those things thank you I needed to hear those words right now you're welcome and it's and it's true and you you are definitely such a beautiful example, of that of the way that you have you know gone through all of the things that you have gone through good bad and indifferent. And are continuing to share your story and. Every time you share it it is deeper and it is juicier and it is. More I don't want to diminish you thanks I always say more connecting like the other stories from connected all but it's expanding in his right nor connection and I'm getting more comfortable it is so it is because I'm going to yeah but my story. The more I should have brought it more than it is out there in front and like I'm getting more confident so the more I'm Comfort like the more I'm willing to go even more in-depth and. And dig in like talk about the uncomfortable things to become comfortable with those things you know what I like that's the only way to so your apps yeah. That is what happens I can talk to you all day nazir's that's so beautiful is there any, new stories that we should be waiting for anything on the horizon that maybe I don't know anything I'm not like trying to post but oh no it's so funny because my mom. And I was writing. And I needed time and I asked her to watch the kids and I you know and she didn't understand what could be so important that I wasn't getting paid for and I needed to do again it's that my mentality, it's that day and she's like what do you mean Nuria thank you for writing I'm like no Mom this I'm doing for myself like this is for me. And unfortunately sometimes she wasn't wanting to be supportive and that way right like I'll watch the kids and because she's just angry with me about other things and then divorce and things like that so when my book was finally published printed ship. And in the box and we're opening the box together and I wanted her to be there and she's holding my book in her hands and she's opening the page she's the name and the acknowledgements and. Her smile Mel like it made everything like that and that book took years mouth like I stopped a few times I'd my daughter like. I lost 20 Pages like there is it was a journey and oh my gosh yeah so it took years and for her to sit there. And just have this genuine just choose beaming and she'll and so now she'll go you know anytime she has a doctor's appointment she tells her doctors about like, her daughter wrote a book on her phone so she's always wanting like send them the Amazon link. And oh my God they don't want you texting them I love it like it's so cute anyone who knows my mom's like yeah she's proud of you she's telling you her doctors about your book. So she wants me to write her story and I am seriously considering it no she wants me to leave stuff out which I told her I can like I'm like no I'm not going to leave things out it's going to have to be brutally honest and they are and so. To send Positive Vibes Mel because I've been thinking about it over that is nothing hurt you know I haven't started at all but I've been thinking about it over the past year and just like framing it in my mind. And I want to do it for her I want I want to do it for her, that would be yes and he knew all of all of the convincing Vibes and I honestly I feel that even just you continuing to share your story the way that you do I think she's watching that and I think that's definitely. Getting her more and more courage each time of like oh well nazhah just shared this that was pretty, so maybe I can like or maybe you know she might get to an age where she's just like bum old enough fuck it like who cares about everybody who's gonna think something is dead so I'll just go ahead and write it who knows but I have full confidence that this will be, written and so much wear for so yes definitely so you good Juju thank you well is there of course it's there any. Final parting words of wisdom or anything that you just, feel called to share as we wrap up this conversation I would just say do you I was so hung up on the end result I was so hung up on like it has to be big or like. You know hit that home run and then it'll be something important but like you know what ya single thing about your life. Is beautiful and is unique and is different and it's you and it's your narrative and. It's and nothing is ordinary about your extraordinary life I just I would like to say this to remind people that because I wanted like a big publisher I wanted like big Publications to to publish my articles, and then I felt like that's the only time I would give myself out and I'm like if I'm at, I can't even give myself value how can I ask someone else to give me value if I don't even give myself that's cuz right, we asked your goals were beautiful beings do you honor you value yourself don't wait for other people to come around and give you recognition and value give it to yourself, who deserve it bam I love that it's so true of like your life is extraordinary, every day every day is extraordinary and that was phenomenal thank you nazhah thank you thank you thank you thank you for thank you for doing this thank you for putting this together the effort the time, marketing the words the post you know social media everything that goes on with this I know I know Mel I know how hard the work that goes into it. And you do it and you do it for such a great purpose thank you I'm truly honored to be here honestly thank you for your words thank you for your support and your energy and all the things. For those of you listening all of NASA's information is going to be in the show notes including where to get her book how to stalk her on Instagram all of the good things. But thank you once again for sharing your story and for BTO. And I will catch you all later at the next episode have a great day. Tight all right folks once again thank you so much for listening to this epic episode all of the resources and links connected to it will be in our show notes located on our website more than, stop bus route.com if you like this episode which I would be shocked if you did not go ahead and hit that like subscribe review and share, also remember that this episode and all others have been made possible by Financial contributions and support from listeners like you so if you would like to hear more stories of how epic humans are more than just pop on over to our GoFundMe and make a contribution. Also don't forget to follow us on Instagram at more than just podcast thanks again. Music.