More Than Just Resilient with Jennifer Ramirez (she/her)

In today’s episode, I’m joined by Jennifer Ramirez, founder of the women’s group & Rise. 

Together, we discuss her decision to rebuild her life as a single mother and abuse survivor and how she’s using her experience to empower other women on their journeys.

We also get into:

• Choosing yourself first
• Turning down distractions
• Sitting with the discomfort of the changes you need to make
• The power of women sharing their stories with each other
• How Jennifer educates her daughter on speaking up to stay safe

Links:

• Visit the Women Rise Chicago Website
• Contact Jennifer Directly: jennifer@womenrisechicago.org
• Follow & Rise on Instagram
• Follow & Rise on TikTok
• Follow & Rise on Facebook
• Follow Mel on Instagram @mel_mcsherry
• Follow the podcast on Instagram @morethanjustpodcast

🙌 This podcast is supported by listeners like you! If you enjoyed this episode, we'd appreciate it if you could make a donation of any amount at this link. You rock!

Transcript

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Music. I'm your host, Mel McSherry. On this podcast, we share how we are more than just descriptors and titles that identify us in our lives, our businesses, and our communities. In this safe common room space, you'll hear stories of success and lessons learned from, myself and other misfits, entrepreneurs, and change makers. My intention is to inform, connect, and expand our knowledge so we can be mentally, emotionally, and financially profitable as we create the change we desire. My promise is that from each episode, you'll take away not only inspiration and a connection to someone you never knew before, but also the encouragement, the action steps, and the support so you can create what you want. Music. Hello, everyone. Welcome back to season two of More Than Just. I am your host, Mel McSherry. And as always, I know I say this every time, but it's still true. I am so excited to have yet another phenomenal human in the space. Today, we have the honor, the privilege, the excitement to chat with the amazing Jennifer Ramirez. Now I met Jennifer, honestly, can't remember. And her and I were actually chatting in the beginning, like how did we meet? And we think it was just through the magic of social media that we started following each other. And one of us finally pulled the triggers and, hey, we should have virtual coffee. And I mean, of course we instantly hit it off and I've just been so in awe of Jennifer's story, her tenacity, her passion, and I'm sure we're gonna get inside of all of that today. But first and foremost, Jennifer, thank you so much for spending your time and energy with us today. Thank you so much for having me, I'm super excited. I always love talking to you. So like to do a podcast with you, I'm excited because I think it'll be good. I mean, same, same. So Jennifer, I always love to start off these conversations with the following question. What would you say is your main title or descriptor and how are you more than just? It's such a good question and I haven't had time to think about it, but this is the best I got right now. So I would say my main title or descriptor. And I've never heard anyone like do this before. So hopefully I'm doing it correctly, but I would say. Like just resilience af I mean, I would concur a hundred percent. You know and and you know, that's not everything of who I am But obviously it's a really big piece of my story and I just continue, To get stronger and better as you know, you grow and the years pass and things like that So that's that's how it answers that question I love that. And resiliency, you know, it's, there's so many layers to that, right? So what was your first experience where you identified how resilient you are? I honestly never really labeled myself as that or whatever until my sister actually told me that she was talking to my mom about me and what I'm doing. And she's like, she's super resilient. And I've never really heard of anyone like describing me that way. And And I was like, damn, she's right, I am resilient. I don't know, for some reason, I just never used that word a lot before. But I think that that's a big piece of who I am, is just continuing to go no matter how hard things get and no matter how hopeless it feels or how stuck you feel, it's just keep going, just keep going. See what happens, just keep going. And that's just really how I've lived my life all these years, honestly. What were the words that you did use before that to describe yourself? I would say like strong, you know, like strong, independent, you know, kind of a normal words you hear. But I guess I never really saw myself in that light until somebody else said it. And then I was like, oh yeah, yeah, I am. I'm resilient AF. Right? It's so beautiful when you can see yourself through somebody else and use that in a way that is empowering. Cause I know, you know, we try to think the best of ourselves, but we're human and we only can. I don't know. We can only perceive so much with everything else going around in us, all those things. I'm the same. When I hear sometimes people describe me, and I don't know if you've ever felt this way, when you hear other people describe you, there's this little bit of a war of myself between, fuck yeah, and, oh my God, what am I, or do they just think I am, and then I'm going to fuck it up somehow. Has that ever happened to you? Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Where you're just like, really? That's how you see me? And then it's good, though, when we get that. Because sometimes we tend not to give ourselves. I know I'm like that. I tend not to give myself enough credit for everything that I do and the person I am. And I just did an event this Saturday, and a lot of women were complimenting me. It made me feel. Not that I've been working really hard on taking in compliments and not shutting them down, because I used to do that before. I'd be like, no, I wouldn't accept it. And now I know I'm more aware in accepting it. but it's almost like I don't fully accept it because I'm like, really? Like, do they really see me that way? But you know, it's not a bad thing, you know, but it's just still like working on my self-love and you know, it's like, you know, you know how it is. It's like one side of, I call it my trauma brain. It's like my, like that realistic part of me like knows it's true, but then the trauma brain is like, well, are you really sure though? You know, are they just saying that to be nice? You know what I mean? So I battle with that still, you know? Yeah, and I think a lot of us do, especially women. Oh, a hundred percent. I think there was somebody who says, you know, you should name that voice and just talk to them. Like, Pamela, I see you, I hear you, shut the fuck up. Exactly, I just heard about that at my event. The other lady I was presenting with, she said she has a nickname for hers. I forgot what she said the name was, but I was like, I like that. Yeah, and yeah, it's saying like, all right, I hear you, but shut up now, like you're not welcome here. Yeah, it's so powerful, those little things. So I love how passionate you are. And with your main title and descriptor of resilient AF, how has resiliency fueled or inspired these passions that you have? Oh, completely. It's very apparent to a lot of people when they meet me, when I start talking about my passions that they could actually see. We can easily talk about it, but when they see my eyes light up, I start smiling. I just can't help it. It's just because I really love what I do. And yeah, I think people can just see that in me and I think that that's cool because I could say that before I started doing this work, I didn't really have a lot of things I was passionate about. So it felt like you're kind of just living the ins and outs of every day and just not really knowing what you're doing or what was coming or not really having a clue and just kind of just, you know, living to live, you know, and now I feel like I, not that I didn't have a purpose before, but like now I feel like I have a bigger purpose in my life. So it just makes things just flow better, you know, vibe better. I meet the right people now. I'm not like, you know, I used to be in a lot of toxic relations, not just romantic relationships, but friendships too, and even work environments, you know? So like I was just surrounded by toxicity before and now being around people who I've chosen to be in my life, who are safe and healthy, it's like so amazing. So I don't even know how I got on that topic, but yeah, no, I love it. Cause it's needed to hear. I mean, you're saying that because it's somebody needs to hear it. So thank you for sharing that. Yeah, of course. My pleasure. So what is your purpose? You mentioned this, you already, you started, you opened this door. So what is your purpose? Well, you know, I would say I, of course I'm a mother. I think that's one of my other purposes, but that's not who I am. That's not the only thing that I am. Right. So I have a nonprofit where we work with women that have survived like sexual and domestic abuse or any type of really trauma and abuse. And just doing that work and sharing my story of how far I've came and giving these women like inspiration and empowerment and, you know, healthy tools, the tools to cope in a healthy way instead of turning to drugs with an alcohol or whatever, you know, and just. Seeing these women just make progress and seeing them smile when they first came in crying or seeing them just letting their guards down and coming in with wins that they were excited to share about how they're weak. But it's just all worth it. I just really love helping women. And it's not just with trauma and abuse, even though that is one of my passions, but it's just general. I love helping women, whether it's giving them business advice or giving them ideas. I just. Always want to see women win. We have been held back for so long and I think we're all getting empowered now and seeing that we can be equal to men and not even almost comparing ourselves to men either, just knowing we're our own damn person and we're this awesome group of people that are doing some amazing freaking things. I think that that's so powerful. I just love helping women and seeing women progress and grow and to know that maybe even and I had some type of part in that is so cool. You know what I mean? Like just knowing, even if I just planted a little mustard seed by saying one thing to them, you know, I don't try to tell people what to do, but I always encourage them that they have options and that they have the resiliency themselves to choose their life, to choose better choices, to choose, you know, themselves even. You know, again, us as women, we don't always choose ourselves first. We tend to put other people ahead of us and sometimes it's okay to be selfish and choose yourself and work on yourself and be that best version, whatever that means for you. Yeah, so much yes to all of this. So I always love to hear, and this is part of the selfish reason started this podcast, is I always love to hear people's stories and their journeys of how they have created, what they have so far. And I would love to know if you feel comfortable, If you could share with us a little bit of insight into your journey of how did you take this inspiration, and this purpose of wanting. To help women? Where did that come from? How did you realize that this was your purpose? Yeah, I'm fine to share. Always fine to share. So I'll just give everybody kind of like a background on my story so that way they can understand how I got here. I think that that always gives people like kind of the complete picture. So I went through childhood sexual abuse from my dad when I was young and my mom knew and stayed with him. So I wasn't ever taught boundaries. That was the first issue amongst many. Then I grew up and so I got into relationships with toxic men. I moved to Chicago when I was 19, so I grew up in the burbs. So when I got out here, it was like, woo, the whole new world. And I started dating people that I had never dated before because those type of people were not in the burbs. So I was just like, it was just like a kid in a candy store. But also, it was me being curious about people that I had never even looked at like that. So I got into toxic relationships and stuff like that. And I became pregnant at 20, had my daughter at 21. As soon as I told her dad I was pregnant, he took off. And so I was left as a single mom, physically, financially, emotionally. He never gave me child support so I had to like figure everything out. And it was so hard, especially when you're 21. You're still a baby, even though you're technically, you're legally an adult, but you're really still a baby and don't really know anything about the world. And I didn't even know who I was. I was still just figuring everything out. And that's essentially when I hit rock bottom when I had my daughter. I would say the first few years of her life were really hard on me because they were just... It was just so stressful. And you know, you're single. It's just so stressful, especially when you're doing it financially on your own. It was even another pressure that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy, honestly. It was really hard. And that's when I hit rock bottom. So I lived in Logan Square. I'm sure a lot of people know what that is, but this was pre-gentrification Logan Square, so it was bad. Okay? So there was gangs and drugs. Not hipster Logan Square. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's why I always say that because I think it's funny because they're like, oh, Logan Square is nice. Oh, look how fancy you are. Yeah. No, it wasn't like that when I was living there. So there was just shootings all the time and gangbangers. It was just madness. I was just like, how did I get here? How did my life turn into this? I never expected this to happen. I was just so unhappy. I think I was depressed, but I also think I was too busy to be depressed because I work full time, then come home and take care of my daughter and cook and clean and take her a bath. By the time the night is over, I had 30 minutes to myself before I had to go to work and do it all over again. It's very tough. I just got into, again, a depression, but not even and really realizing I was depressed because I was just couldn't, never had a moment to myself, you know? So then, I also was in a lot of credit card debt because I had to offset other payments that I wasn't getting from the dad. Like I offset that with credit card and then I just like was just drowning in debt, which added to my depression and sadness because I was like always really good with money, but then now I just always was broke. Like just always, no matter what I did. Then this was also, I had my daughter in 2006, so then the 2008 recession hit, I was getting furloughed from work. So like, even though it was like one day, that one day made such a difference in my life and I struggled so much, you know, cause I worked for the city. So anyways, so then. I just really was like, I need to find a way. I need to have, like, how can I change my life? Like, how can I do better? Like, you know, so I just started being a little bit more conscious of like the things I was doing. I started counseling for the first time when I was like 25 years old. And that was honestly a game changer for me because it helped me become more self-aware. And I got to the point where I started realizing like all the bad things that I had done were like my fault. Like I used to blame a lot on like my parents for not being around and not being there, not being good parents, but it was like, they didn't force you to be with these guys. They didn't force you to make these decisions. You made those on your own. So that was a really hard pill to swallow is that acceptance part is like accepting things for what they are and accepting that you might be here because of the choices that you've made to get there. And that was really, really hard, but it was a big, big eye-opener for me that I was making these bad choices. I was dating guys in gangs and that was selling drugs and I was starting to sell drugs. So I was just not in a good place until I started counseling. So that changed my life. Then I started really working on getting out of debt. Fast forward to when I was 30, I was 100% debt-free. I had started- Bravo. Yeah. And then I started investing in real estate, so I started purchasing properties and things like that. I got out of my last abusive relationship right around 30 years old, and that's when I decided to really just focus on myself and try to just really work on myself and not date anyone, because I also realized at that time I was really codependent on men. When it finally came accepting that part that I need to learn to be in my own company. And that was really hard for me. I hated it. I hated the silence and just these things that I hadn't dealt with were coming up for me when I was alone. So just changing that, honestly being single was the best thing I ever did for my healing journey and for myself because. Then I learned to love myself. So that was something I never had. I never had self-love you know, or even looked at my value. Like I just always, like, you know, I just settled for anything because I was scared to be alone. I want, I didn't want to be alone. You know, that was a big fear for me and kind of overcoming that stuff. And here I am now. So like, you know, I quit my job in 2020 to pursue and rise and rise started to kind of just, we started more like supporting women entrepreneurs, but then COVID happened and there was a big need for mental health resources. I am not a mental health expert. Well, back then I wasn't, I'm not, I don't want to say I still am, but like, you know, I definitely have a lot more education and things like that now around and training and stuff, but like. Yeah, and it just kind of fell into my lap, which is why I think that this is what God wants me to do, because it's never something I expected to, but he just kept pushing it towards me. And I was like, no, I don't want to do trauma and abuse. I'm good. I'm good. And then it just kept coming up. And I was like, all right, I hear you. I hear you. All right. And then as soon as I started doing it, everything just kind of came together. And I was like, wow, I really love doing this. And that's why I love helping women, because. I know what it's like. I can meet them where they're at, because I know what it's like, be in their position. I know what it's like to feel hopeless and sad and depressed and never know if you're going to ever feel normal again or happy again. And I would ask myself, I'd be like, well, I'm just going to be miserable forever. I really accepted that fate. And, it was like finally a realization that was like, no, fuck that. Like you can be anything you want to be and do anything you want to do. But I also had a lot of naysayers in my life too, who were like, are you sure you're going to quit your job? You're going to quit your full-time job to do what? A nonprofit? Like, you know, all these things that I just kept getting pushback. And I was like, you know what? I'm going to still do it and see what happens. I don't know. I just had this thing where failure is not an option. That's always what I told myself. You have to make this work. Because I don't ever want to go work a nine to five again in my life if I ever can help it. That's kind of a long story short. That's basically what got me here today. All those downfalls and struggles really made me resilient and really made me super strong. And I share my story very openly with other women to let them know that no matter where you're at or how horrible you think it is, or it is, you can still overcome and. Be or do whatever it is that your heart desires, you know, because I do believe, I do believe that these desires are put on our heart for a reason. And you know, it's up to us to go for it or not, you know? Yeah. Ah, Jennifer, holy story, Batman. Like that is phenomenal. And one of the reasons why I love when people have this space to share their story and a short story that they want to share is we not only learn about each other at a deeper level faster, but we can connect in a deeper way. And one of, you know, as you were talking, one of the things that you said got me thinking and realizing I was doing the same thing was this act of distraction from depression, from overwhelm. Because as, you know, a former single mom, I now have an amazing partner who lives with us. But when I was a pretty much a full-time single mom, I didn't give myself the luxury. To sit in whatever was nagging at me. Because I can't do that. I can't sit in this fear. I can't sit in this worry because I have shit to do. I need to bring money in. And we see it a lot in in little ways, whether that is coping mechanisms of social media, of drinking, of shopping. It's so interesting that though we're all aware of it, having that discussion of how are you distracting yourself and what is it that you're afraid to sit with? I feel like, and I would love to obviously hear your thoughts, I feel like COVID was kind of that big awakening for all of us of no more distractions. Ha ha ha ha ha. You know, all get to sit with yourselves and go there because the more that you try not to, It's going to keep following you and the more it's going to. Bite you in the ass, whether that's burnout, whether that is, I mean, Lord knows what, right? Right. Yep. Is that a conversation you also tend to have a lot with the women that come to you, not, only to speak with you, but also to your events? Yeah, absolutely. Because a lot of people do that. And I think it's also an unconscious thing, because I think that's how a lot of people learn to cope when they went through whatever, right? So they just learn to repress it or to keep themselves busy or whatever. And I always say that that's just a Band-Aid. You know, I'm like, it's great for when you're first going through something, and it is the kind of coping mechanism that you use to get you through it, but that's no longer serving you. So you're holding yourself back because you're still thinking that you have to do those things when you don't. You're actually in a better place now. So I always use Netflix as an example here. I'm like, it's so easy for us to just turn on Netflix and watch it for hours, and not just Netflix, any type of TV or whatever, even social media, and just distract ourselves with that. But it's just, you're not really dealing with your issues by keeping busy. And that's what people think sometimes. Like, oh, it'll be cool. I just keep myself busy and I won't think about it. But it's like, you have to be okay with sitting in your discomfort. It sucks. Yes, it does. I can attest that it does suck, but that's how we grow. Because if you're just pretending, you're basically in denial. So you have to come to the acceptance part of like, I need to work on this and it's not going to be easy, but I have to do it to accomplish A, B, or C. And that's what some people get really stuck. And then they don't see improvements, but it's because they're not really taking the steps to get there. They just, you know. Distracting themselves with Netflix or TikTok or whatever. And then when you look back, it's like, what did you do the last five years? And some people can't even say, because they just were watching Netflix and freaking scrolling through TikTok. Yeah, they're just doing their day-to-day routine, just getting by. Yeah. And that's, like I say, it's a band-aid and you're not really, cleaning the infected wound. You're just putting something over it. And just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not marinating under there, growing bacteria and getting nasty. You still have to clean it and be uncomfortable, continue to clean it. It stings, it hurts now, then later it starts to grow a scab, it gets itchy. That's kind of the journey. Actually, a girl last night at the pork group, she was like, how many fricking onion layers are there? I was just talking about that too, Frances Will. It's like the ultimate onions. It's like you peel back a layer, right? But then you realize that, yes, that layer is gone. There's a deeper part. There's another one. That's the thing that you just resolved. Exactly. And a lot of people think, like, oh, I got one layer done, but it's like, unfortunately, there's probably like a thousand more under there, you know, and that's just part of the process, though. It's okay. Yeah, it's a journey. And I always say it's not a sprint, it's a marathon, you know? Yeah. That's really how it is. Right. Yeah. And it's funny that too, and I feel like this is really beautiful for, you know, anybody who's listening to have this reminder that, you know, you're not alone, you're not alone. This may sound overwhelming that, you know, we're going to be completely blunt and honest that, You're not alone. You're not alone. You're not alone. You're not alone. You're not alone. You're not alone. You know, healing isn't linear. There are so many layers. It's a process. It's a journey. Jennifer and I, and probably every guest on this podcast, I can confidently say can attest to that. And it's a step by step process. It's one where it only needs to start with one awareness that turns into one action step that turns into a support that turns into a resource that turns into this, and it's that snowball effect. So if you're listening to this right now going, this is resonating me, I know I need to do this. Like you hear, we talk to ourselves like that all the time, I know I need to do this. You're right, you're right, I know you're right kind of deal. Yes, you do know. And what is that first little thing you can do to just come back to yourself, to learn how to sit with yourself? Is it that you go back to a hobby that you loved before that isn't so distracting, like reading or painting or singing, or is there something else that's not taking something away from you energetically, instead it's actually replenishing you and learning how to reconnect to. Yourself. So this doesn't happen overnight. Nobody wakes up and goes, aha, I have a plan. It's more of listening and knowing that there are people like you, you Jennifer out there, like every guest on this show, who have been through some shit and we are still continuing to grow. I'm, you know, I'm learning how to be better at sharing that on, not only on my social media, but also just to the people around me. Okay, I'm struggling right now. Like this is the season for me to rearrange some stuff. And I think that's what's so beautiful about the space that you've created with Amrise is that. Having resources like that and the more that we can tell people that resources like you and your nonprofit are you know are there? The more that we can know we are not alone and there are. Beautiful beautiful spaces safe spaces for us to go to to observe and to be and to be seen, Yeah, absolutely. It's so important. And if Cove it also showed us anything we need people as much as we I hate people. I don't want to be around them. And I'm an introvert, too. So I don't always enjoy being around. But I do need it also. And I was actually... I do my Monday night support group in person. And one of my facilitators was like, I'm really glad you do this in person because I'd never leave the house otherwise. I'm like, you know what? I wouldn't either. I would just be home 24-7. Because I'm an introvert. I love my house. But Monday nights forced me to get out. And every time I... Always a little bit of a, I have to get out. But once I'm done, I'm like, I'm so glad I went. I love it. I really do enjoy leading the groups and helping the women and just talking to them, just like this in a safe space to talk about whatever and no judgment, all love and support. And that's so incredibly important for people's healing to just be, validated, be understood, be heard. Because a lot of these women don't get heard when they go to the police station or when they try to tell people that they're being abused and their friends and family are like, no, he never, he would never, or whatever, you know, and it's just that validation is really, really important. Yeah. Hey friends, liking the episode? Pretty epic, isn't it? Well, guess what? This episode and all others have been made possible by financial support and contributions from listeners like you. So if you would like to continuously hear how these epic human beings have made it possible, more than just go ahead and head over to our GoFundMe and make a contribution. Cool. All right. Let's get back to the magic. I'm curious as a mother to a daughter and this, beautiful, you know, passion that you have, how has this shaped the way that you. Talk to her, that you advise her? Like how is that? And you can compare it to how your mom did it or you don't have, and you don't have to go there if you don't want to, but I'm sure it's night and day. Yeah, it is. But how has that influenced? And do you have any advice that you could give to mothers of daughters that are getting older and of age and how to have these really safe conversations with them? Yeah. So my daughter and I have always been close because it was just her and I for a long, long time. So I've always been open with her. And this is just me. I'm not telling anyone what to do here. This is just based done my personal experience with her. I've always allowed her to have a safe space to. Talk with me. I've always told her I might get mad because I'm not going to lie. I'm a human and I get upset with certain things. I might be mad, but I won't stay mad for long because you've told me the truth. I don't know if that's good or not, but that's what I did when she was little. But she always did end up telling me whatever, just things that happened at school, issues with friends and stuff like that. I also always made sure to tell her about safe people. Safe people don't tell you to keep secrets. Safe people make you feel good. Safe people will never touch you inappropriately. Being really open with your kids about not sexuality, but grooming and things like that. Because I was a sexual abuse... I was abused when I was seven, so I didn't want that to happen to my daughter, obviously. So I always tried my best to make sure that I wasn't letting her sleep over at people's houses that I didn't know. Only a handful of people that I really trusted in. Being honest with her and also letting her know that the lines of communication are always open. But even if you don't feel comfortable telling me something, you can tell person A, B, or C. A trusted adult or whatever. And also, another thing I think that was good for us was not sugarcoating things. Amen. Thank you, Sandra. I speak very bluntly with her, and here's why. And I just actually finished a 40-hour domestic violence training yesterday. And they actually... Yeah. So they actually said, do not tell your kids to call their private parts, don't give it a nickname. For example, there's a little girl, she called her private part a cookie. And she kept telling somebody, I don't remember who, that so-and-so kept touching her cookie, but they thought she was literally talking about a cookie. They're like, oh, it's fine, you should share your cookie with everyone is what they told her. And then so she was being sexually abused, though, like she was being grouped. And so that's the big reason they say don't, you have to refer to, you know, our body parts is what they are, penis and vagina. Sorry, I know that this is probably not what you wanted me to talk about here, but I think it's really important. No, do it, do it. Safe, open space. You do you, though. I'm here for it. And just same with my daughter. I just never also hid things from her because I've seen other people in my family like, oh, I'm not going to tell the kids anything because it's going to upset them. But guess what? Real life is upsetting. Life isn't all rainbows and lollipops. Bad things happen. People die. People get sick. And kids need to be able to see that because otherwise when they get into the real world and now you've sugarcoated everything for them. They don't even know what to do with themselves or how to take it in. Well, I am very honest with my daughter about, even when my grandpa was dying from cancer, I told her right away. Some other people in my family chose not to tell their kids and their kids were mad at them when he passed because they were like, I didn't get a chance to say goodbye. I don't know. I just believe in just having that open line of communication because I didn't have that also with my mom. My mom never talked to us about much. Much. It was physically there, but she was never emotionally there. We didn't have a lot of conversations. And plus, I always felt like I was her mom, in a sense. I was a mature kid and stuff like that. Yeah. And now that my daughter's 16, it's a tough age. Honestly, I'm not going to lie. It is hard because she thinks she knows everything. And I don't know anything about the world. The whole 16 years that she's been around, she knows more than I do. And she has an attitude I think, you know, just typical teenage stuff. So, you know, I just, I really just have to keep checking her. Like, excuse you, who do you think you're talking to? And she told me, oh, I was just joking. Well, how many times have I told you not to joke with me? Like, you know, so she just. And they're always going to test boundaries. Always, always. Always. I think even when they're adults, they'll still test your boundaries. Oh, God, yeah. Yeah. So it's just... I think just being open and honest and also, too, just holding them accountable for things as well. If you mess up, you're going to have to pay for it. You don't get good grades. My only rules is do your chores and get good grades. So if you're not getting good grades and you're not doing your chores, that means something's majorly wrong here. I don't feel like it's a lot to ask. And so the kids all do well in school, though, but they know we don't allow C's. And that's just to keep them motivated, because I feel like if we were to allow that, they'd just be like, well, it's just a C. But it's like, no, you're smarter than that. Do better. And that's it. So yeah, I'm still figuring out being a mom to a 16-year-old, honestly, so I don't even know if I'm the best person to give advice. But yeah, I mean, that's the best that I could think of, just being really open and honest. And I also talked to her very honestly about sex and expectations from guys and how they shouldn't pressure her and she never feels comfortable. And also, actually, this just happened recently. She was working at Wendy's and her manager was very emotionally abusive. I had actually reached out to them a few times because I didn't like the way she was speaking to my daughter. And I know that my daughter is only 16. She hasn't had a lot of life experience with jobs and speaking up at a job and stuff like that. So I intervened. But then at the end, I was like, I can't keep fighting your battles for you. You got to do it on your. Own. You know what I mean? And she ended up quitting her job. She quit on the spot. Her Her boss actually ended up calling her a bitch, a 16-year-old little girl. Oh, my God. Yes. And then she called me. She went to break. And then she's like, Mom, she just called me a bitch. Can I leave? She's like, I don't want to come back. Absolutely. And I was like, absolutely. No. Please. I'm like, yeah, you can come back home. And she's like, I just didn't want you to get mad at me. I'm like, I'm not going to be mad at you. I've been trying to tell her for months to quit because I didn't like the way that they were treating her. Yeah. And I told her, I'm like, do not ever allow anybody to treat you and speak to you that especially your workplace, because that's just, you know, if you just don't say anything now, they're just going to get worse. And it's not okay. I don't care what, you know, if it's Wendy's or wherever, like it's just not okay, you know? So I was proud of her that she did that. So that means she did kind of listen to something I taught her. You know what? It's so funny with kids. You think back when we were their age, Max is 11, and we're starting to get into the preteen boy, which I know is a different angle than a teenage girl. But it is funny when you sit and think about how you acted at that age towards your parents, and then your kids just turn around and serve it right back to you. And you're like, Ah, yes. There it is. But I love, because you and I parent very similar in the fact that I am also very open and honest with Max. And I also don't sugarcoat things. And I also really try my best to word things in a way that doesn't dismiss how he's feeling. I mean, our generation was kind of that, go to your room, collect yourself, and come back when you're ready to be... Not an adult, but my mom would say, go calm yourself down in your room, and when you're ready to be in public, come out. And that was just like, okay, so I go to my room by myself. Sweet. And I word it in a way, because with Max being autistic, sometimes he does need to be in a quiet space for him to process things out because he gets overstimulated. So I try to use that more of a space of, okay. Let's go into your room and let's take a couple of deep breaths. And then when you're ready to talk to me about it because I want to talk to you about it. Come and get me and let's talk." It's never go to your room, figure it out, and it's done. It's let's have a conversation. Same. Yeah. And it's having those foundational things. I think that was such a beautiful nod to you from your daughter of these foundational conversations that you've had with her really has sunk in and will continue to sink in and give her that. It's nice to see when some of the stuff that you've talked about, it's like, oh, she did hear me. Okay. Half the time she's always like, no, you guys don't know what you're talking about and it's just so frustrating but yeah even things that I've talked to her about her, you know, her dad's side of the family and. Just warning, in my personal opinion, I think they're a little bit narcissistic. Oh, not a little bit. I say a lot. But I don't want her to feel bad about herself, so I don't say too much. But I have pointed things out to her that they've said to her. And I was like, you do know that that's not okay to say, or that's not okay to do. Especially, she's told her grandma, I don't want to talk about my dad, but his mom always continues to talk to her about her dad. And he hasn't been in her life in a lot of years. She doesn't want anything to do with him. And they don't respect her boundaries on that. So now my daughter's at a point where she's like, mom, I don't want to see them anymore. And I'm like, okay, that's fine. That's your choice. And I was like, why not though? Where did this come from? This just happened a couple of weeks ago too. She's like, because she doesn't listen to what I ask her. I tell her not to talk about certain things. And I'm like, thank God. Yay. She has boundaries. Just things that I never had growing up. So I'm so proud that I can teach her these things so that... She's a junior in high school, she only have like one and a half years with her until she decides to go off to the world. And knowing that I could send her off, that she's able to protect herself, you know, emotionally, physically, mentally with other people, like makes me happy that like, okay, you've done a good job. Thank God. Yeah. A hundred percent. I think it's definitely having more of those open conversations with your children and describing things. Yes. In a way that they can. Understand it at whatever age, their app, but not diminishing it into something that, like you said, is sugarcoated to where they're just kind of like bouncing along life without really understanding or connecting to the importance of these situations, these words, their boundaries. All of that. So honestly, I mean, bravo for that. And it's such, it's so beautiful. Again, not only to see her make the choices that she's making, and I'm sure that she will continue to to make. But again, going back to this beautiful nonprofit that that you have, having a space where other women can do that as well. Walk us through what and rise. I know I know we've been kind of peppering it throughout this episode, but I really want to give it the spotlight that it deserves because it is phenomenal. So give us a quick description on what and rise is and what are the kinds of spaces services resources you all provide? Yeah, so just to give you all a background on what the logo means, it's more than just a pretty logo. So the and, the ampersand means your story isn't over yet. There's more to tell and the rise means rising above any adversities that you face. So our mission is empowering women to be the best version of themselves no matter what adversity they face. So we. Offer free counseling to any woman in Illinois. You do not need to be a trauma survivor. You just need to be a woman that resides here and we will give you counseling sessions for free. We also do four free support groups per week. We do one in person, three virtual. So we actually serve women all around the world, not just in Chicago. And I won't say around the world, around the U.S. Some of the women come from out of the country, but mainly they're from the U.S. We also do career development. So we help with resume stuff and also mock interviewing skills. We also do financial education because of my background and being financially abused and also being broke and then investing in real estate and starting businesses. I love teaching women about that. And my goal with doing financial education is so that all women are financially independent. We do come from a world that teaches us that we can't have a house without a partner or we can't get a nice car. We have to have a man to do that. And it's like, no, no, no, no, we can do all that on our own. That's something that's super important to me. And we also do trauma life coaching as well. So I coach women, life coaching, but also with the trauma twist to it, helping women work through boundaries and acceptance, forgiveness, all the stuff that they kind of need to be able to move forward and live their best life. And then we also do a bi-weekly book club, so we read a inspiring... Memoir of some sort or a self-help book as a group. And then we also, I think that's it actually for all the services that we offer. Oh, and then we do a lot of events as you know. So a lot of the events we do are to teach women about healthy relationships, red flags, or healthy coping skills. We just had our Galentine's brunch on Saturday, and it was amazing. And just we taught women that the point of the event was loving your authentic self. So teaching them how to do that. It was amazing. I love that event. I really do. It's so beautiful and it's really eye-opening for a lot of women. We say a lot of really mean things to ourselves, so to be able to be in a safe space and talk about that is very, very impactful for a lot of the women that come. So that's kind of the gist of what we do, and we're basically just an organization where we want to help women succeed no matter what, whether that's getting you a really good resume to get you the dream job you're looking for, or helping you heal from trauma and abuse. It is that we can do to help you, like that's what we're here for. Mm. Oh my Lord. That is like all encompassingly amazing. I mean, the fact that you hit so many spots, right? And there's so many beautiful resources out there for women and people who identify as women who need these services. Yeah. But I honestly, I'm not I'm not blowing smoke up your ass. I've never known of a space that has such a collective offering. The fact that you not only do the deep work, you also support them in the work that needs to be done so they have the time and energy to do the deep work like helping them get jobs getting more confident connecting with other women like that's just so so so so so beautiful. Thank you. I appreciate it. I love it, honestly. So another reason why I started and rise is I'm sure you've experienced this too is you you know, growing up. I always had issues with girls. There's always some type of jealousy or cattiness or they're talking about each other behind their backs. And I had a falling out with a group of friends right before I started And Rise. And I think that was part of the reason I was like, I want to create a community. And I was doing the talking too. I'm not going to sit here and act like I'm perfect, but because I turned into a gossipy person being around these girls that were always gossiping. And then I realized I was turning into that person. I was like, I don't want to be like like that. I've never been that girl. I've never been like that and I don't want to start now." So I was like, I want to start something where nobody's like that. Everybody comes and everybody's supportive and loves on each other. And that is something that I've been able to build with And Rise is none of the cattiness, none of the jealousy, it's just all love and support. And that's so incredibly important to me. And that's why I think we're so successful because I think whoever comes to our events and uses our services sees that too, and they automatically feel like comfortable and welcomed. And, you know, yeah, that's something that's really important to me. Just creating that safe environment where they can come and make friends, safe friends, you know, and, you know, that's really important. So, Oh, I love, there's so much yumminess in this episode. It's not only your transparency, and thank you so much for sharing all that you've shared, because it is those connecting points of your journey through abuse, your self-discovery, your honesty. And I have that. Visual of like, yeah, it's there, but it's surface level and it's still festering. And then you got to heal it and then it's got to heal again and then you got to heal again and it's scabbing. That to me too, it's just, yes, maybe for some of you kind of like, oh, but also just it's so accurate. And moving it forward into the transparency you have with your daughter. And I'm sure the transparency you have with your soon to be husband, And all of those things, like there's so many. Amazing takeaways from this. As we wrap up this conversation, is there anything else you feel called to share with our audience? Yes, actually, and I know you don't know any of this. So, and I know you said this episode's coming out later, so I think it's okay to share this. But, and I'm sharing this too to hopefully. Inspire and touch someone out there that might need to hear this, right? So I So I am in the process of trying to get my dad prosecuted for the childhood sexual abuse. I went last week to speak to a state's attorney. They got our statements on record, and I really do believe that he is going to be prosecuted. And just to let everybody know, again, my sexual abuse happened at seven. I'm 37 now, so it's taken me 30 years to get to this point. And to be honest with you, it was one of the girls from my support group who inspired me to do this, because she was telling us her story. And I was like, dang, if she can do it, then I can do it too. And that's what happened. And that's why I'm sharing this now to let you all know that in the state of Illinois, there are no statute of limitations when it comes to sexual abuse, sexual assault. So if you ever feel like you want to hold your abuser accountable, luckily in this state you can. There are a lot of states where you cannot do that. But yeah, it's never too late. And I don't know what the outcome is going to be yet. So I'm trying not to speak out, but I am very excited about it just because I do. I feel like I've been called to do this. I don't feel like it was for no reason. I do feel like I've been led to do this and that's why it's coming out and that's why I think it will work in my favor because I don't believe it would have just came to me to do it out of nowhere without it being what I need it to be. I've also been documenting the whole process on video, so I'm going to release those videos once it's all kind of said and done, because... I've seen a lot of gaps in our system, and I want to bring that to light as well, because, thank God I'm so strong, and I talk very openly about my abuse, and it's easy for me to talk about, but there's a lot of people out there that don't feel comfortable. And so I do believe that the system re-traumatizes people, and I can attest to that based on what happened with me testifying and all that stuff. So there need to be changes, and I'm hoping that I can be a person, one of the people that helps that change go through. And also holding my abuser accountable finally. I was really scared of him all these years and more felt a lot of guilt around prosecuting him because I was like, what kind of a daughter would I be if I put my dad in jail? I'd be a horrible daughter. And it's like, I had to change that narrative and say, what kind of a father is he that he shouldn't have touched me? He should have protected me. And a lot of us feel guilt and shame, especially when it comes to domestic or sexual assault and abuse and just planting the seed, you know, for whoever needs to hear it that, you know, it's never too late and, you know, you can't hold people accountable. Yeah, I just, I just feel very strongly about it. So that's, I wanted to bring that up. Thank you so much for sharing that. And I look forward to seeing how this does progress for you. I agree with you that, you know, whatever the judicial outcome will be, you internally will feel. Justified and heard. And the fact that you are also so beautifully inspired to create a resource out of it for others so they also can know the steps, can at least really truly see what this experience is for somebody. So they can, you know, know that again, it's they're not alone and that they can have people to talk to and resources to look at to answer those questions and to feel supported. That is just next level. Jennifer, you're just so, I mean, badass isn't even, I mean, that's the tip of the iceberg of how I feel about you and just your, yeah, your resiliency AF. Absolutely. Oh, thank you. All right, everyone. So everything that you need to know to learn more about and rise to connect to Jennifer, everything will be in the the show notes. Jennifer, thank you once again for being here today and for sharing your time and your energy. Thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it. All right, everybody. Music. We'll see you next time. Bye. Bye. All right, folks. Once again, thank you so much for listening to this epic episode. All of the resources and links connected to it will be in our show notes located on our website, more than just dot bus route.com. If you liked this episode, I would be shocked if you did not. Go ahead and hit that like, subscribe, review, and share. Also remember that this episode and all others have been made possible by financial contributions and support from listeners like you. So if you would like to hear more stories of how Epic Humans are more than just, pop on over to our GoFundMe and make a contribution. Also, Also don't forget to follow us on Instagram at more than just podcasts. Thanks again. again. See you next time. Music.